How is reforming healthcare in the USA evil?
Posted in Health Insurance - Free QuotesI would have thought keeping the system as it is would be more evil.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/09/obama-healthcare-reform-defeat
FACT - Insurance companies in the USA admit to pushing up prices, buying politicians and not paying out claims when they should
FACT - PER PERSON the USA spends more on healthcare than any other nation on the planet
FACT - Obama debated his plans before the election for healthcare
FACT - the chance of a child under five of dying in the USA is greater than industrialised nations with universal health coverage
FACT - Obama was elected by the American people to bring in change
FACT - Obama wants to stop insurance companies from screwing the American people
FACT - The reforms Obama wants work in the Netherlands and in Switzerland
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/world/us_democrats_reveal_health_care_plan
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/In-the-Literature/2008/May/Universal-Mandatory-Health-Insurance-in-The-Netherlands–A-Model-for-the-United-States.aspx
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/table/2008/oct/01/uselections.healthcare
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
http://www.unicef.org.uk/campaigns/publications/pdf/sowc08.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/26/us-healthcare-obama-barack-change
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13899647
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Posted: November 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pm |
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November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
What you really mean is what’s wrong with health care replacement by the government. I point to every entitlement program the government has run and bankrupted for that answer. God bless.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
1)So if Politicians are so easily bought, why aren’t they being held accountable?
2)Perhaps people in the USA earn more than other Socialist countries.
3)Obama lies, don’t you know that, how many broken promises, research it.
4) I take it you’re excluding Africa
5) Obama’s cronies Acorn are under investigation for voter fraud in 11 States.
6) Obama wants to screw us himself instead.
7 As in the words of my dear liberal friends ‘prove it’ and I see you excluded the UK.
And a as bonus, in case you didn’t already know The Guardian is the biggest Left Wing disinformation newspaper in the UK.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
you are blinded by the obama BS why don’t you get off the friggin kool-aid and read about his insurance he is so determined to shove down our throats. Its no good we don’t want it
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
FACT - You are a socialist and a sucker for trusting crooked politicians
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
It’s not. The Republican propaganda has become ridiculous on the subject and as people find out the actual facts, the Republicans will lose all credibility.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
No one is arguing against REFORM, but you don’t overhaul a system at an incredible cost to citizens during a recession, before fixing what is wrong in a plan that works well, outside of cost.
Sorry, you cannot compare the cost of nations without taking into account the differences in size. America cannot handle Obamacare, and most do not want our options taken away.
The Patients’ Choice Act would offer subsidies direct to the "consumer" in order to pick a plan of the patient’s choice, rather than an imposed federally controlled non-option.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Repubs and Dems are hippocrites.
Since when is it the government’s job to provide healthcare? The government is ONLY supposed to provide services that cannot be bought on the free market (like national defense). Healthcare CAN be bought on the free market.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Please don’t state your claims as FACT unless you can back them up. Besides, true Americans believe that ANYTHING called "reform" that comes with a pile of big government mandates is inherently evil, and we don’t CARE how they do it in Europe!
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Reforming health care is not evil, the reckless abandonment in which they are doing it is. Fact- you have no idea what goes on inside Obama’s head, he may want to destroy this country, we don’t know. A lot of people want reform, but they want it done correctly. Obama simply gave broad instructions and turned it over to a bunch of buffoons who have no idea what they are doing. Why won’t Obama go after cost cutting ideas like capping mal practice suits instead of giving lawyers tax breaks or allowing us to buy out of state insurance to raise competition. The entire group is overlooking some simple fixes because they were suggested by the right. That is evil, overlooking something that would be good for all of our people.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
They’re not wanting to ‘fix’ anything. They want Socialized Medicine to advance the Socialist agenda. The well-informed Americans are against it and speaking up in Town Hall meetings. The anger is coming because Politicians aren’t listening to their constituents which is who voted them into Office.
November, 2010: Listen to your constituents or lose your job.
November, 2012: Quit spending all of our money or we’ll put a Republican in the White House.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
It is not Economy of 14 trillion dollars mate.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
The USA was never to be a socialized country. Secondly, obama never explained any of "ideas" in any of the debates. He would just repeat the same old mantra throughout his campaign. The other "facts" you stated are incorrect, you may want to research things a litttle better.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! Additionally you can reference PG 15 Line 19-25.
PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HealthCare Benefits for you. You have no choice!
PG 59 Line 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer!
PG 62 Protection of Data, Government shows they will have database of your personal & financial info.
PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.
PG 98 Line 8 Americans - You will be paying for others HealthCare while paying for your own.
PG 100 Line 15-19 The Government Will be using ACORN and other community groups to promote & enroll.
PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.
PG 111 Line 208 The Federal Government will usurp all State powers in State Based HealthCare Exchange. Violation of 10th Amendment.
PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.
PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.
PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.
G 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
PG 265 Line 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HealthCare industries.
PG 268 Line 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.
PG 287 Line 14-25 PROOF that Government will ration HealthCare by mandating waiting periods for readmission. PG 298 Line 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
It’s the method.
You forget, the nations that you mentioned, including yours, are based on monarchy’s. Your people are accustomed to having your government decide for you.
Americans don’t want the government making our decisions. We are tired of our government ignoring us. You, on the other hand, are accustomed to your government ignoring you, and controlling you.
FACT - Obama debated his plans before the election for healthcare REAL FACT - obama did not debate his health care plan, he gave an outline, no debate was involved
FACT - the chance of a child under five of dying in the USA is greater than industrialised nations with universal health coverage UNTRUE
FACT - Obama was elected by the American people to bring in change REAL FACT obama was elected to run our nation, not do as he pleases
FACT - The reforms Obama wants work in the Netherlands and in Switzerland REAL FACT America is not either of those nations. They are based on monarchy’s. Their people, yours included, are accustomed to having their government decide for them.
Here’s a thought: Why doesn’t the rest of the world comform to our ways?
At any rate, any gains in longevity do not indicate a superior system. If your NHS was so much better, then why are the gains marginal at best?
And the cost is absurd.
You can keep your system, we will pay for what we need, when we need it. I see no need to pay for some strangers health care, when that stranger won’t even pay his or her own way.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
The fact that there is a healthcare "system" is itself evil. Healthcare is just another product that people buy when they need it or want it, and it should be treated like any other product. There is no such thing as a banana "system" — when you want a banana you buy one. Simple and sweet. No bloated insurance companies or government bureaucracies to make it difficult to buy the banana or to drive up the prices. No attempt at forcing bananas on people who don’t want them. That’s the way healthcare should be.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Try to understand, the majority of the American people still want to make the transition to the new health care system. The reason that it seems otherwise is because a large portion of the minority opinion is coming out to protest universal health care. Those of us that want the change are not protesting because we are getting what we want, so you only see one side of the division making any noise. The majority is quite happy, and peacefully at home.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Fact the reforms in the house bill are not those that worked in Netherlands and in Switzerland.
Fact Obama did not give specifics on the changes to heath care just broad terms.
Fact the CBO says the current plan will cost one trillion.
Fact we die earlier because we have the worse eating habits of any civilized nation in the world no legislation will stop that we like to eat junk I would rather die a year earlier eating ice cream than 55 years of eating shredded wheat.
Fact children have coverage through MChip but their parents are not signing them up
Fact Congress has exempted themselves from the plan and so has the president
Fact The president Praises the Mayo and Cleavland clinics but the house bill does nothing to bring those reforms to Medicaid and medicare
Fact Obama has lost control of the issue because he has given inconsistent messages about what he wants and expects so even people who agree that something needs to be done no longer believe what the president is saying on the issue.
Fact while he won more than 50% of the people who voted the actual percentage of eligible voters who voted did not go up. Many of the people who did not vote stay at home because they believed both parties were untrustworthy.
Fact the President has not been open and honest about the bills he has signed too date everything needs to be signed now without debate even without time for senators to read the bill.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
It isn’t. What is evil is a nation as wealthy and as supposedly Christian as the US not ensuring all its citizens have access to health care. Dozens of millions of people don’t have any, and many millions more only have minimal.
Americans would commodify and profit from the air we breathe if they could. A user above laughably compared buying health care to buying bananas, as if to say a sick person can choose not to have medical attention just as they can choose not to eat bananas. These sorts of opinions are frightening.
Another user asks why doesn’t the rest of the industrialised world have a healthcare system like the US? Er, because it’s a hugely inefficient system, as a quick comparison of countries’ healthcare spend per capita shows. It’s also an immoral system.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
It’s funny how Americans regard people in favour of nationalised healthcare as fools who foolishly trust politicians, and yet they’re presumably quite happy to trust profiteers like those who’ve plunged their economy into the worst crisis since the Depression with something as vital as health care.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Be specific. Reforming it to what? Reforming it to whose idea of reform?
There are far too many general subjective questions appearing on this forum. If yoy want to reform something you have to be specific in what you want reformed and how. That’s how you got Obama, just general
subjective nonsense, change, reform, what the hell is that?
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I wonder where I’ve seen this before….
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I would suggest you don’t use such a word as ‘evil’ if you wish to have good answers.
Evil is a very individual thing but does mean you get incoherent responses.
The health care system suggested is not evil, however many things concerned with the economics needs to be addressed very similar to the NHS situation.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
The only ‘evil’ about this is if the rotten, selfish and inhumane spirit of your political system is allowed to carry on into the future, without reform for the better. Politics is not just about boundary extension, it should first and foremost be about the people. And ‘government’ has a responsibility to ensure all its people are well cared for, and those unable are enabled in all areas, in order that they may fulfil their potential and expectations in life. That can never be too much to ask of a government with interest of its people at heart
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Foreigners from the U.K. who have drunk the socialist cool aide are now here to give us the FACTS?
You guys tried to run the former colonies that are now the USA. You did such a poor job, we kicked you out.
Apparently you won’t stay kicked out. You’re back, telling us how to run our country again.
What could you possibly know about medicine in USA, healthcare in USA, government in USA? Nothing, right? Squat. Bupkis. Nihil. Nada.
And you have the temerity to tell us what Obama intends, why he has a right to perpetrate his scheme, and how to fix our insurance companies? Such brass ones you have.
The U.K. has declined a lot since it fell into socialism, and since so many lowlife immigrants from the Middle East took up residence in the U.K. all calling themselves Patriots. We don’t need that here. We’ve got our own problems. Guns, crime, drugs, stupidity, miseducation, crooked banks, etc.
Toast is another word for Obama Health Scheme come September. The voices of the People will be heard.
If you don’t give me "best answer" for this, you are forgiven in advance.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Many Americans including myself are Anti Universal Health care, because we believe Government has no right to dictate to us what we ca and cant have for treatment. In UK you have Government deciding what course of treatment is better for patients based solely on (cost effectiveness), we dont have that in America. Secondly, waiting lists to be seen by experts in the UK is silly, for example, needing counselling for Depression you have to wait upto 3 months in most areas just to be seen. Same with Rheumatology and Pain Clinics. I know this from personal experience as an British American national. We dont have this problem in America.
However, I do support President Obama’s plans NOT to have a US-NHS but to provide free health care for ALL who loose their jobs and/ or too poverty stricken to afford it. BTW, we already have subsidized medical help in America for the poor its called MEDICADE. Where Government pays pretty much entire costs for health care for you. Not to mention that in America, we dont pay before hand for our health care as you do in the UK. Anyone who says you have free health care in the UK is a LIER, I worked in the London NHS until 11weeks ago and I know that National Insurance Tax is there for a reason this is how Brits pay for medical help and you still have Government pulling thee strings and long waiting lists.
I believe the best system would be a cross match American/ British system, for example scrap the NHS and keep NI Tax, funnel this into private insurance schemes and get the Government out of the Health Care picture. Stop them telling us what is cost effective let Dr’s decide, bring down waiting lists after referral and stop paying money (taxes) to the Government.
I am long term sick I suffer a debilitating disease that 5 months ago was not apart of my life at all, yet I still oppose the UK form of the NHS only Cuba has made nationalized health care a success and they have better health care system than UK only beaten by America and its 3rd world. Secondly, I am also a forgeinger to you and I still oppose the NHS so you cant blame foreigners for NHS supporters, only dire emergencies can be free treatment for non British nationals. If you hold permanent residency that allows you access to social funds and if you are naturalized a British citizen then and only then can you use our NHS. As a former worker in the NHS, I turned down so many people wanting NHS treatment because they never had access to social funds even though they was legally admitted to the UK.
If someone gets thru this hurdle the PCT Primary Care Trust is then charged with rejecting NHS claims. I have seen so many legally allowed in Britain forced to pay private health care which usually costs roughly £180 per hour for a appointment with Dr’s, £14 for a prescription to be wrote then a further charge for each prescription needed (depending on the cost of the individual medication/ drug). One visit will usually cost a person over £200 +
The American system fails when you have millions without care which has given rise to the largest child death rates in the Western world. America fails when insurance companies get to decide what treatment they fund, America fails when people are made unemployed and loose health care with it.
American system is great in certain aspects but failing in others. Anyone who opposes children having free health care because it may mean they wuld have to pay a small tax is a selfish greedy inhumane pig. I will happily pay a tax so children and the poverty stricen can get some health care. I cant claim to be faithful or a religious person if I oppose this sentiment. Although, not a Christian Christ Jesus did teach us compassion for ALL MANKIND.
FeedomF - NHS is NOT FREE we pay taxes to fund our treatment, a true FREE Health Care System would mean you DONT PAY TAXES AT ALL TO FUND IT, AND IT WOULD INVOLVE DE-INDUSTRIALIZING THE SYSTEM, MEANING BANNING THE PROFITTING ACTS OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
Only way that can be acheived is via eradication of Industrial Capitalism.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
The NHS is the greatest British invention of all time. Yes you will hear about problems but im sure there are many scare stories in the US aswell. If your all too backward and fundamentalist to accept reform then so be it, but I’m glad for our FREE healthcare, regardless of who you are.
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